Does Gandalf Know About Atoms?

This question is brought to you by me waking up at 1 am for no good reason.

So, do atoms exist in Middle Earth? I think that might be a tricky question for other fantasy worlds but the implication in Tolkein’s books is that the magical world we see is the past of our world or a world very like our world. From the first books of The Silmarillion to the end of The Lord of the Rings, the world gets less magical and more human. Indeed, the destruction of the One Ring itself hastens the process leading to major magical figures leaving Middle Earth at the end (sorry, spoliers!) It’s a neat aspect of the stories because it adds a note of melancholic loss to everything. There is also an intruding modernity that is in league with evil in the form of Saruman, a magical being who is nonetheless committed to accelerating the shift to a more industrial world.

What has that got to do with atoms or why am I picking on atoms rather than other bits of modern science? Metaphysically, as we’ve discussed before, there are contrasting views of reality that predate modern physics and “it’s all a bunch of atoms” was one of those views. Alternatively, we have Platonic ideas about higher orders of abstraction or more naive ideas about essences. These ideas that things are like how they are because they have an essence of the thing that they are, really suits magic and magical thinking (in the non-pejorative sense). Elves and humans are different in kind to the extent that the half-elven progeny of human+elf couples got to choose (with divine help) whether to be elves who are partly human (Elrond) or a human who is partly elf (Elros, first king of Numenor). Mortality was a gift of the gods rather than an emergent property of the biology of half-elves.

Saruman looks forward to a world of machines and semi-automated manufacturing. As a wizard, it is not his natural domain of expertise but his work is a contrast to the artisanal craft of dwarves, the elvish Noldor and even Sauron himself who is characterised as a craftsman of sorts. These approaches to making stuff are obviously not incompatible or imply different kinds of an underlying reality. However, in our own reality, industrial material science and modern chemistry depend on modern atomic theory, whereas the amazing crafts of pre-modern times did not require people to know about or have any sense of atoms.

In other words, Middle Earth shifts from a base reality that works via essences and the underlying nature of things to one that can accommodate our modern understanding of the world. So were the atoms always there but magically divine organising principles took precedent or did the world just become more atomic as magical influences departed? EIther choice works I guess.

Does Gandalf know about atoms? From the back lore across all the books, we know that Gandalf is a sort of demi-god but one in the form of a human. Saruman, who is of the same kind of thing as Gandalf, thinks of himself as human or at least of humanity. However, if the gods of Tolkein’s worlds are anything then surely they are being more purely of essences and organising principles? Or perhaps, Gandalf and Saruman are essentially possessing a bunch of atoms meat-robot style? Either way, both of them are very smart so either:

  • They do know about atoms because they understand how the world is changing.
  • They don’t know about atoms because they don’t need to know about atoms to use magic or just generally operate in the pre-modern societies of Middle Earth.
  • Saruman knows about atoms because he is into that sort of stuff but Gandalf doesn’t know about atoms because why would he?

OK but Gandalf is into FIREWORKS and that’s where I start leaning to Gandalf having some sense of more modern chemistry. Gunpowder predates modern atomic theory and also Gandalf has a special expressly magical interest in fire, so Gandalf doesn’t HAVE to know about modern chemistry to make his clearly magical fireworks. However, he is also very smart and has divine powers, so he does have a reason to actually pay attention to how chemical reactions happen.

In short, I think it makes sense to imagine that Gandalf knows about atoms. Radagast doesn’t though.

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29 responses to “Does Gandalf Know About Atoms?”

  1. I have wondered something like this in Bujold’s “World of Five Gods” series. She has Penric needing to deal with an outbreak of disease, and it becomes quite clear from the narration that diseases are caused by germs.

    But why doesn’t Penric know about germs? The world of the Five Gods has real gods who have superhuman levels of knowledge. The gods are also capable of communicating with at least some mortals. The gods surely know about germs. Why haven’t they told the mortals?

    The Doylist explanation is that Bujold wanted her world to resemble the real one at certain periods of history, and introducing the germ theory of disease would distort that too much. But I would dearly love a Watsonian one.

    (I am sorely tempted to expand this into a discussion of disease theories in history and the implications for the validity of real-world religions, but that would perhaps be too contentious for this particular forum.)

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  2. As I think of it, the world may have become atomic when the world was reshaped towards the end of the Second Age. Before that, craftworks like Rings and Silmarils were possible, but required singular efforts (as if they required unique essences from a creator). Afterwords, Saruman could built new works and attempt to reproduce a ring – because the world is now round and made of atoms.

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    • While looking into the dating of the reshaping of the World, I was struck by the fact that the Second Age doesn’t start or end with the reshaping. The Age boundaries are all about the Elves; a mere change in the shape of the planet is trivial by comparison

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  3. So obviously I’m largely just making shit up here and my main thinking was about what Tolkein may have thought about angels and that he likely had zero opinions on atomic theory in his myth making. BUT I realised afterwards that he almost and probably intentionally does touch on this issue. So there will be a part 2 on this tomorrow.

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  4. I know you said “purely of essences” but I’m working real hard to justify my misreading that as “purity of essence”.

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  5. Yes, Gandalf knows about atoms and quantum theory because Gandalf is an angel/spirit (not a god.) The creator god made the universe Ea, separate from the creator realm of the Timeless Halls, etc. In Ea was the world of Arda. The Valar (arch-angels) and Maiar (angels) shaped Arda for the children of the god (elves, human men, dwarves.) In Arda, the Valar and the Maiar lived on the continent of Aman (the equivalent to Mount Olympus.) When human armies attempted to take Aman, manipulated by Sauron (fallen angel,) the Valar moved Aman completely to another dimension (the Undying Lands) outside of Arda and Ea but accessible by some through a dimensional portal (the Straight Way.) Arda then changed shape and much of its surface form. The elves (the Firstborn) were invited to join the Valar in Aman in the other dimension, but some of them stayed in Arda and went to the continent of Middle Earth, moving later to Aman in the other dimension in dribbles and drabs through the portal over time. The elves share some of the qualities of the Ainur (Valar and Maiar) in being able to will themselves immortal and able to travel the portal and take some others allowed to go there, because the elves were the first created by the god for Arda and are most closely related to the Ainur.

    So LOTR essentially takes place in a magical quantum multiverse and Gandalf as a Maiar can go back and forth through the portal between dimensions. He doesn’t even need a boat to do it. Because he isn’t human; he is a spirit and just takes the human form of an older man (fana) and calls himself a wizard as the Maiar do when they go to Arda from Aman in the other dimension (the Istari). And so he knows atoms as the bits of matter because he and the other Maiar under the direction of the Valar manipulated the matter — shaped the world of Arda out of magical atoms for the children of their father, the creator god. Gandalf as a Maiar has less power to do this than the Valar but is sent on missions to watch over those in Arda and find/thwart the disembodied Sauron.

    Saruman, also a Maiar, also knows and shaped matter in Arda. He does not think of himself as a human, he just found humans both the easiest species to manipulate and to use to take power over Arda. At the end, his human body (fana) is killed by his servant and his now powerless spirit (Ainur) is denied passage through the dimensional portal to Aman. It is left to wander Middle Earth and eventually fade away.

    So the Ainur are essentially made of quantum energy (spirits,) created by the creator god and they used to live in Arda but went off to their own dimension when the inhabitants of Arda they built the place for got too pesky. So yes, magic atoms and dimensions and magical machines.

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    • Is it correct to say that the Blessed Realm was removed from Ea? I think not. The Elves who went into the West did not leave the created realm that their fate was bound to. Valinor was removed from Arda (except by the Straight Path) but not from Ea.

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      • There seems to be some debate about that, regarding all Tolkien’s various stories. Some point to Aman/Valinor being removed entirely from Ea to another dimension and some point to Aman/Valinor being removed from only Arda, possibly to another planet in Ea, but still accessible through a transportational portal. But most of it points to being out of Ea altogether as Arda is central to Ea.

        But Aman/Valinor was not meant to be the equivalent of Heaven, either. It wasn’t just a divine realm existing around Arda. So it being a multi-dimensional set-up seems to fit.

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  6. It might work better to think of Tolkien’s world as losing types of atoms as it went along. An atom is a kind of essence after all (the essence of gold or of mercury, for example). Back then there were also atoms of goodness or nobility or greed or wickedness or so on that could be worked by smiths or alchemists, but the world, having become smaller from the departure of the Elves, has lost them.

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    • Oh, I like that. These exotic atoms are rare, and certain processes result in their decay into mundane atoms or bind them so tightly to mundane atoms that we can’t access them in their pure form. Kind of like Niven’s “manna.”

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      • That fits with the last Elves who didn’t go to Aman with the last of the journeys, the lingerers. They became spirits, dried up and faded away, from the sight and memory of humans. Exotic atom energy dispelled.

        Tolkein didn’t really have the atomic bomb in mind in writing LOTR/Silmarillion, since it was stuff he worked on in the 1930’s originally; just the other awful weapons of mass destruction of WWI and WWII. He deeply was against the atomic bomb. So atoms have to be simply implied, I guess.

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  7. There’s a line that I have in mind that always makes me wonder about Gandalf.

    After Saruman reveals himself as being of Many Colours (rather than the White), Gandalf says that he likes white better. And Saruman responds:

    S: . . . The white page can be overwritten; and the white light can be broken.

    G: In which case it is no longer white. And he that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.

    Which makes me think that maybe the answer to your question is “no”? It seems like a strange thing for Tolkien to put in Gandalf’s mouth, given that Tolkien presumably knew that Newton analyzed light by breaking white light apart with prisms.

    But perhaps Gandalf has some sort of personal body of direct knowledge of how things work, down to a certain level, but that does not include the realm of the submicroscopic. After all, if he knew that white light was broken into its component colours by photons of light interacting with the molecules/atoms of glass, why would he consider such analysis unwise? Is analysis inherently foolish?

    Maybe the arguments a little iffy, but I’m too tired to fix it up.

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    • “Is analysis inherently foolish?” We seem to be drifting into James Blish territory here — he wrote a whole trilogy (of four books) on the question “Is the desire for secular knowledge, let alone the acquisition and use of it, a misuse of the mind, and perhaps even actively evil?”

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    • You know, I just had a thought about this line (This may step on the toes of what you were going to write, again, and if so, sorry).

      Maybe — despite the fact that the line about breaking things to find out what they’re made of directly follows the exchange about light — maybe Gandalf isn’t actually making any kind of judgement about studying refraction and prisms and photons of different wavelengths, here.

      Maybe Gandalf is narrowly referring to what Saruman has presumably done to himself, or something about himself. The “thing” is something essential to or about Saruman. If so, the criticism is awkwardly and poorly phrased, but even Tolkien is fallible.

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    • Following up on “Is analysis inherently foolish?” — I thought to search Google Scholar for works citing the line “he that breaks a thing”. Well, there were quite a few hits. One of the more interesting details that was brought up in at least one work (
      Branchaw, Sherrylyn (2014) “Contextualizing the Writings of J.R.R. Tolkien on Literary Criticism,” Journal of Tolkien Research: Vol. 1: Iss. 1, Article 2.)
      is that Tolkien himself cited that very line spoken by his own fictional wizard in response to requests for aid with literary analysis of his own works, at least twice.

      There are also other things that Tolkien wrote or said indicating a strong dislike of literary analysis.

      So there’s that.

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  8. Did Tolkien know about quantum physics, even in ‘lay’ terms? I dimly recall something I read that indicated he had heard of relativity theory and it may be that w all the popular books on quantum mechanics published in the 1930s plus the Oxford environment (w the likes of Schrodinger rocking up) he may have been aware of it.

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