Hugo Stats aren’t likely until January

Several days ago on Facebook I left a message to Dave McCarty 2023 Hugo Administrator regarding any updates on this year’s stats. [for reference here https://www.facebook.com/grand.universal.dave/posts/pfbid02EN6NtBKaYtRkJStaxZnNQogoa4eqnJDk44AtCo5hYpyWvhwWaXRLyDnXEV6QsxTxl?comment_id=667208312257705 ] There was no immediate reply but Olav Rokne of Hugo Bookclub replied with a link to Tweet by ErsatzCulture on the continuing absence of the stats. There were also some comments by Chinese fans about the delay that were critical of the people running this year’s Worldcon (there is context that to be honest I couldn’t follow).

Dave McCarty has now explained that work and family commitments are currently overwhelming – understandable after having spent time overseas organizing a complex event.

There’s a dilemma here obviously. I don’t want to hassle a specific individual on their personal social media on the one hand but on the other hand, an awful lot of key updates about the Hugo process have only been available via Dave McCarty’s personal Facebook page. In addition, the delay is feeding into speculation and unsubstantiated rumours that there was something off about the nomination process — a process that had its own poorly explained delays [https://file770.com/chengdu-committee-update-on-hugo-ballot-delay/ ]

Without further evidence, the simplest and most obvious explanation is the best one: Dave McCarty has a life to lead and simply ran out of time with his other Worldcon duties. He stated this was the case. I felt that rather than a series of dates and delays, that it would be better to have a date further in the future that was achievable;

“I assumed that was the case. Pick a date that will be manageable with your life, with extra time to spare and announce that the stats will be available on that date and not before – say December 1 or even January 18. Even if you get it done before then, stick to that date. Then everybody knows when the 2023 stats will be about and nobody will be asking when they are out (or if they do ask then there is a simple answer).”

https://www.facebook.com/grand.universal.dave/posts/pfbid02EN6NtBKaYtRkJStaxZnNQogoa4eqnJDk44AtCo5hYpyWvhwWaXRLyDnXEV6QsxTxl?comment_id=667208312257705&reply_comment_id=1504931713685315

Dave McCarty’s reply to that was January 19, 2024, i.e. the date 90 days after the Worldcon laid out in the WSFS constitution 3.12.4. [If my arithmetic isn’t off that 90 Days after the award ceremony, and the con finished the next day, so maybe 20 January is actually the cut-off date?]

I don’t think this is a good outcome overall but I don’t want people organising a Worldcon to burn themselves out or place themselves in conflict with their work/family because one task wasn’t completed as quickly as I would have liked.

There are many open questions about this year’s Hugo Awards — not neccesarily controversial ones. I’m keen to see what impact Chinese science fiction had on the longlist for example.

There has been a history of the non-US Worldcons having disappointingly low representation of people and works from the host nation on the ballot. The most extreme example of this was Yokohama in 2007, which had essentially no Japanese representation on the ballot. Melbourne in 2010 had some Australian presence (notably artist Shaun Tan) but not much. UK Worldcon’s have had a better presence. I think that is a dynamic worth exploring because I think there are things we as fans (and many of the readers of this blog are not US-based) could do to help improve representation.

The flipside of non-US Worldcons having disappointing levels of local Hugo representation is that it also runs counter to the surrounding fear of Hugos in new countries somehow being swampped by local fans. So far not only has that not happened but it hasn’t come close to happening. One thing I’m curious about with the 2023 Hugo Awards is the extent to which that was due to few Chinese fans nominating works/people from China versus the degree to which it was due to there being a lack of consensus around what works/people to nominate. I would hope that EPH would have helped push up non-US centric works but I don’t know. I’d like to see.

A different question I have is whether non-US Worldcons have more (small c) conservative finalists. There aren’t many data points here and I think the UK cons suggest otherwise but… 2007 was notable for being one of the most male-dominated Hugos this century, even more so than the Puppy years! There were many credible finalists in this year’s Hugo Award and I think we picked an excellent set of winners but I also felt like Best Novel were safe choices — like voters were going for the familiar rather than the provocative. That’s a very subjective impression but I’m curious about the longlist here, what where the near-finalists?

Lastly, I think a lot of people were genuinely surprised not to see Babel by R.F. Kuang as a finalist. Earlier in the year I’d have said that is was the book to beat in 2023. Did it just fall short by a narrow margin? If so did EPH work against it and in what way? I don’t think the Hugos should change voting systems just because a book I liked didn’t make it but these kinds of data points are relevant to thinking about the rules and processes.

Anyway…I guess these questions will be delayed until January and will be an interesting appetizer to the 2024 Hugo nomination season!


76 responses to “Hugo Stats aren’t likely until January”

  1. The best comparison might be Helsinki, since that was the first since Japan to be held in a non-anglophone country. As I recall, that wasn’t particularly small-c conservative, but there also wasn’t a notable Finnish representation on the ballot.

    Maybe that was too easy to get to for USAnians an UKaners, so the usual Anglophone dominance held sway?

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    • I mean, the Finnish-language SF market can’t be that big, since Finnish isn’t an international language like English, Chinese, or Spanish. And it was both a quick trip from the UK and they did extensive outreach in the US.

      (Hello! I nominate you a lot.)

      Liked by 1 person

      • Well yes, there are just some 5 million Finns, even though some are internationally successful, and one or two even write in English.

        Also just out of curiosity, what do you mean by “an international language”? (Yes, Chinese is an official UN language. Yes, there are Chinese-speaking minorities in many countries. Yes, there are two Chinese-speaking countries, for most practical purposes. Yes, the rest of the world has good reasons to learn Chinese, and the Confucius Institutes are there to help. Still, um…)

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        • I was about to suggest Singapore as a third Chinese (75% Chinese) speaking country, but Wikipedia tells me that English/Singlish is winning out over Mandarin (and Mandarin over other Sinitic languages).

          Liked by 2 people

        • A language that a lot of people outside the countries that it’s from speak or read. is an international one. At this point that’s English, Mandarin, and Spanish; Hindi/Urdu too, with Arabic and French. There are more Portuguese native speakers than Russian ones.

          If your country didn’t invade places a long way from home, your language hasn’t spread internationally.

          Liked by 2 people

          • A person might learn additional languages for any number of reasons: to conduct business, to read scientific journals, as part of an ethnic group in diaspora, or even to communicate with people from other dialectal regions within their own nation.

            I once heard a story about some English-speaking people who got totally lost in a Latin American city, at their wit’s end until they came upon people who couldn’t speak a word of English but turned out to be Yiddish speakers. Problem solved. 🙂

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            • A sign language teacher I knew said she’d used it to help an elderly Chinese immigrant living with her American Chinese family. Teaching a handful of basic sign language proved the easiest way to get across the language barrier.

              Liked by 2 people

              • Some people just like learning languages. I briefly dated a Russian major in college who also spoke French, German, Spanish and Hebrew, plus Yiddish (“If you know German and Hebrew it’s easy!”).

                Liked by 1 person

              • I had a friend who wrote a romantic-comedy short about a meet-cute on a university campus between someone from China and someone from Hungary, and since they don’t speak each other’s primary language, they both struggle to communicate in English, which neither of them could speak very well. The twist at the end is when they realize they were both fluent in Polish.

                Liked by 2 people

                • Where might this story be read if it’s available at all for reading?

                  This makes me think of a rom-drama(?) movie(in mandarin, based on a illustrated bk/graphic novel) turn left, turn right where the female character is a translator, of which Polish writer Wisława Szymborska is a subject of one of her translations in the movie. Non sequitur but I am curious to read your friend’s story if it’s available to read.

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      • “Yes but” to what exactly? 2017 was also the first year of the EPH+6 reforms, so it had (at most) one Puppy nominee per category, safely noawarded. Does the “Hugo voters still in culture war mode” mean that they were less inclined to vote small-c conservative (instead consciously or subconsciously going for the stuff they thought would spite the Puppies most)? That they would have been less inclined to vote for Finnish nominees, had there been any? I suppose one could conceivably build a principal hypothesis that those Finns that are interested in the Hugos were either less likely to enter the “war” at all, or joined a (predictable) side leaving their nationalism aside for the time, so in a Puppyless alternate world the results would have been different; but this is not credible to me, starting with the sheer numerical disparity.

        (Also, some of my comments end up in moderation – which is quite understandable; but still, do you have a preferred authentication mode, where getting them out would be fastest and easiest for you? I thought Facebook would be safer than just email+web, but now it seems quite the opposite.)

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          • Usually the first time a message with a new email address arrives it needs to be approved before it is public and then after that is ok. I think one of yours got caught in the spam filter and I don’t know why. I set it free

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        • Just that 2017 had a lot going on, including people nominating specifically to ensure that there was stuff other than puppies (not particularly coordinated). It was an unusual year and people didn’t know how much impact the new rules would have or whether Vox Day was going to make an extra effort. There was also this unfounded fear that Finland gave Vox an advantage because his publishing company was based in Finland (in reality it was just this one guy). Anyway, there was still a degree of collective insanity 🙂

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      • I’m sure I met one or both of them the next year in San Jose, backstage at the pre-Hugo reception. I was sitting at a table with two Finns, I remember.

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  2. …an awful lot of key updates about the Hugo process have only been available via Dave McCarty’s personal Facebook page.

    This is the major communication failure for me. There are a lot of people interested in the Hugos, and the Hugo statistics. Many of them don’t necessarily know all the procedural details. (For instance, Dave isn’t mentioned by name on the Hugo Awards page for this year.) It’s absurd that you have to know who’s overseeing this year’s Hugos and check their personal page for updates (and in the meantime scroll through any number of personal updates that you may or may not care about), and it’s also awkward when I’m talking about the Hugos in spaces where I feel uncomfortably linking a personal Facebook page (i.e. Reddit).

    And that’s not even getting into the part where this whole conversation is happening in a comment thread under a multiweek-old post. I would never have seen this except for your post (or some other post calling attention to it).

    Liked by 4 people

    • Whoever’s doing the Hugos each year (not picking on Dave particularly) needs to keep Kevin S. and the gang at the Hugo web site updated better.

      Hopefully whoever does it in the future will keep that in mind.

      We got spoiled during the years of having the daily zine with the winners and stats handed to us as we exited the Hugo space. Instant gratification.

      Liked by 2 people

  3. I think one of the few cases where there were at least significant and potentially plausible accusations of ‘local fans overwhelming the Hugos’ would be the win for Hominids by Robert J. Sawyer when the Worldcon was in Toronto in 2003. (Which even a lot of Sawyer fans said was not his best work.)

    Liked by 3 people

    • There was the year the B5 finale would have won the Hugo, except the con was in Australia and the show hadn’t gotten there yet, so “The Truman Show” won as local boy made good.

      (“Truman” wasn’t a bad film, but it didn’t make me cry like the first 3 watchings of “Sleeping in Light” did.)

      Liked by 3 people

      • I figured there would be several other cases, that was just the one I was actually present for when it happened.

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    • Yes but I also think there was a conjunction of factors there. Sawyer was very online and while lots of people were catching up by 2003, it would have been a boost PLUS Hominids was published in an extraordinarily trad Hugo way (serialized in Analog). So he almost had pincer movement going on there! The home ground advantage probably did help as well though.

      Liked by 1 person

      • And every once in a while, it feels like Hugo voters go “Why hasn’t this author won a Hugo/won it recently?” and gives the award to a lesser book. (I’m thinking Arthur C. Clarke’s The Fountains of Paradise in specific, but you could point to Asimov’s Foundation’s Edge and Sawyer’s book as other points this might have happened.)

        Liked by 3 people

      • ‘Very Online’ is a good term for Sawyer. Heck, I know he was on Compuserve, and I first met him at WilfCon in Waterloo back in the late 1980s when he had recently published Far-Seer. He’s definitely been very active at marketing himself, which of course is what turns a number of people off; he had a pretty active hatedom at the time, which almost certainly contributed to the complaints. He’s a good ideas man and a capable writer.

        So, yes, multiple things going on. I couched my original statement in layers of conditions for a reason.

        Liked by 1 person

  4. I mean, I get that things got busy at the con, but it seems to me that stats are something that gets generated along with figuring out the winners. So I’m a little confused as to why they don’t have them. Maybe formatting? Still feels strange.

    That’s one of my biggest problems with the Worldcon just past. The communication was awful. I somewhat feel that the foreign contingent was neglected a bit compared to the locals — although reading File 770 shows that a lot of the locals were pretty frustrated as well.

    That the news about what is going on with the longlist/statistics being on a personal Facebook page is also a huge problem. I mean, I’ve met Dave, and he’s struck me as honest and that he cares a lot about Worldcon, but the way he (and the con) are handling this doesn’t look great. Now that we have a date, maybe it can go on the Hugo webpage or somewhere people might look? Just a thought.

    Liked by 4 people

    • I mean, if I was Dave and I didn’t want people to hassle me about the stats, I’d put that date somewhere other than and the end of a comment thread on old post but then again if I was a Hugo organiser I’d have the stats all ready but would have forgotten to organise the Hugo Ceremony, so perhaps I shouldn’t make comparisons

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  5. Thanks for following up on this. Rather have them late and accurate (which I have some faith Dave will provide). Especially annoying in 2021 when they were late and still a mess which as far as I know never got addressed.

    Liked by 3 people

  6. Naming the latest possible date under the Constitution does make me wonder if I had aluminum foil in the apartment, but that might be my pain and discomfort talking

    Liked by 3 people

  7. Um, there is such a thing as “the surrounding fear of Hugos in new countries somehow being swampped [sic] by local fans”? Where can I learn more?

    The discussion of Hominids above is noted, thanks – I used to think the same thing but have long forgotten about it even now. We all could surely also find examples where UK Worldcons skewed British (I mean, look at the 2005 Novel nominees; all Brits! although most of them perfectly Hugo-worthy), but that has been said in the post, and what’s more, in my opinion listing them would be just an academic exercise: it is all too long in the past, in very different conditions (I don’t see anything similarly pronounced even in 2014, on an admittedly quick glance) to be relevant in the foreseeable future.

    Anyway, this is still rather far from “fear of … new countries”. (I concede that some such fear must have been expressed about Chengdu, both because fans will express all kinds of things and because it was a gamechanger, so implicitly about all future Chinese Worldcons as well, especially now that we have the first results though not the details I would also love to see. But can it be generalised to all “new countries”? With very few of them on the horizon?)

    But this leads me to another point: perhaps in these discussions, we should explicitly separate the fiction categories (including dramatic, or not?) from the others, or at least the “Best Fan X” core. It seems to me that gander sauce may not quite fit the goose, and we tend to think of just one side and make generalised declarations.

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  8. Thank you for keeping up on this! I had been checking that facebook page but didn’t think to look for ongoing replies on that old post. I want to trust that nothing is amiss, of course, but of all the years for there to be delays and poor communication…

    Voter preferences and book quality aside, just based on sheer volume of readership, there’s NO WAY Babel received fewer votes than The Spare Man, or even Daughter of Dr. Moreau. Right??

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    • There were 1847 nominating ballots in 2023 and 1368 ballots in 2024, so maybe 500 ballots from new members from China (maybe more, because it proved hard to nominate for various reasons). If many of those 500 voted for KPS or The Spare Man and few voted for Babel (just because of name recognition maybe) then it’s plausible a book that would have been on the ballot might not have been. Still that requires a lot of coincidences but who knows.

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      • That’s one theory, but why would that be? Kuang is a big name in her own right and is Chinese herself. Is there some reason Chinese fans would not vote for her book?

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          • That’s what would make the most sense to me, but I remember someone (on File 770 I think?) post that they reached out to her publisher who said that wasn’t the case.

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            • As a person who was literally born in China, teaches about it, and has spent time there in adulthood, I can’t imagine why she’d decline it.

              It’d be like someone who’d been born in Finland, lived there and had multiple degrees in Finnish stuff turning down a nomination at Helsinki.

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          • Possibly but if she did she didn’t say anything that I’m aware of.

            There was at least one person who turned down their nomination this year and who said so publicly

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        • None that I know of. 500 nominating voters is enough to make a big difference in the outcomes if the votes are cohesive (either organically or as a slate) but also small enough to make almost no discernible difference at all

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        • Maybe the Chinese fans consider her to be an American and kind of British writer? Maybe they just didn’t like the book, what with it being historical fantasy? The Chinese seem to have firmly decided that fantasy isn’t “proper” since it doesn’t have gadgets and spaceships, etc. which was a problem for the Hugos originally; books built on linguistics and alt-history with magic in don’t have many computers and rivets. Maybe it didn’t get translated into Mandarin in time.

          If no/only a few Chinese fans read it, and not enough of the rest of the world voters nominated it, that would be enough to keep it off the ballot.

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          • Wow, after all this discussion now we finally get to “maybe there are some relevant facts that could be checkable”!

            After three minutes at Wikipedia and CSFDB.cn, I would say that Babel was indeed published in PRC only *this* October (and on Taiwan in July). — Of course I know just about two Chinese characters and have to rely on kindness of strangers’ machines, so any kind of independent verification is welcome.

            People *do* prefer to vote for what they can read themselves.

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            • Jan Vaněk jr.: that matches my understanding, but I was too lazy to do the same checks that you did.

              Here’s a Weibo search for the hanzi for “Babel” and “R. F. Kuang”, that show the book has been discussed for a while: https://s.weibo.com/weibo?q=%E5%B7%B4%E5%88%AB%E5%A1%94%20%E5%8C%A1%E7%81%B5%E7%A7%80

              AFAIK the translation of Daughter of Doctor Moreau still hasn’t been published, despite being on the SF World rec list, as mentioned in comments elsewhere on this post.

              I think Kaiju Preservation Society got published around the time of the con, although ARCs and other promo material seemed to have been floating around for a while, albeit not until after nominations closed.

              Liked by 1 person

              • I do see that the first comment in your link firmly believes it *isn’t* a science fiction novel, though.

                Among English speakers, it also seems to have been a tad Marmite/Vegemite, though. Various discussions I’ve come across were unhappy with all the footnotes and infodumps, also the pacing. That probably didn’t help either.

                (NB: I have spell check set to US English, and I get the red squiggle under “Marmite” but not “Vegemite”. Advance Australia Spread!)

                Liked by 1 person

            • There ya go. People didn’t have time to read it. Just like my above example, where B5 was a shoo-in to take the Hugo, but it hadn’t yet aired in the hosting country (and we didn’t have torrents then), so it didn’t.

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      • I’m guessing that should read “1368 ballots in *2022*”. On the other hand, if you do someone already have access to the 2024 stats, maybe you could publish them now, and save us from a repeat of this drama a year in advance? 😉

        IIRC, the first two Lady Astronaut books have been published in China, but I’ve not seen any mention of The Spare Man beyond it being a Hugo finalist. I certainly haven’t gone actively searching for it though.

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    • Daughter of Doctor Moreau was on the SF World recommendation list, and also had a page promoting it (which most of the works on that list didn’t get).

      https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/3X_Z2Blx7v1ECjbO3dP5pA

      We can’t know how much of an impact those recommendations might have had [*] – although the full stats report might give us a better idea, but it might have been enough to bump that novel just ahead of some other contenders.

      [* – but also on that rec list were finalists that surprised many, such as the Dune and Cyberpunk comics, and the Ghost of Tsushima artbook that appeared on the leaked list, so I’d argue it probably had an impact on the lower level categories]

      Liked by 3 people

  9. Two things strike me about the thread on Dave’s FB page.
    1. He originally posted that he had hoped to release the stats on 10/21 and had failed and that he should be able to release them by 10/22. If that failed he stated they would be released by 10/27. Later he seemed to get prickly about folks’ expectations on the release date. While some may have expected an immediate release of the statistics following the ceremony, the other dates were all put forth by Dave. It seems odd that he would be unable to underestimate what he now asserts will take him 90 days to do by so much.
    2. The stated task that needs to be done before the statistics are released is that the statistics need to be verified as correct. I find this worrying. If there are potential errors in either the nomination statistics or the final ballot calculations, how much confidence should we have that the correct finalists or winners were announced?

    Liked by 1 person

    • The verification part worries me less as it is likely there were different stages of generating the stats and we know there was a not-quite-the-final set of finalist that were published by accident. Checking you’ve used the right ones makes sense but that will take time in the sense of emails back and forth across time zones with a colleague in China.

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    • And the normally unstated task that no doubt needs to be done before the statistics are released is verifying that the report in which they are released is reporting the statistics correctly – no missing a row or column off a table because it’s dropped off the edge of the page it was supposed to be on, no data that’s got misaligned because a row or column header had too much text in it, or any of half a hundred other apparently trivial things. And, in this case, making sure that the report(s) say the same thing in English and Chinese.
      A lot (though never quite all) of this kind of thing can and should be checked in advance, using dummy data if necessary – but it’s the kind of thing that is very easily overlooked in the rush if it’s only appearing in what amounts an appendix to the main report that is only to be issued after the event.
      Not saying it’s what has happened in this case – but it’s very possible.

      Liked by 2 people

    • I’m confused by point 2 as well. Presumably the information had already been verified in order to determine the finalists and winners. Most years the detailed stats are released almost immediately after the ceremony giving the impression that, in the process of verifying the winners, the information becomes ready to be released.

      Why the worries now about retroactively releasing potentially “faulty” information?

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      • Sort of. I have no inside knowledge of how they do things but I assume they have on the day the most up to date file of results and from that grab the number finalist from each category and they give those names to somebody who formats nice cards for the annoucers and a slide for the big screen etc. If you then do everything else right there and then you know you are working on the definitive set of results. If you wait a couple of days and you are the kind of person who has a messy kitchen when they cook and you have a whole bunch of files called things like ResultsRun0.3final_final and ResultsRunOctober28_FINAL and ResultsRunCEREMONYversion_Public(copy) then you’d want to double check. Even if you were very strict with version control etc, you might still want to triple check the nomination data. Perhaps, despite all the checking there was something you missed e.g. what if there was a short story that appeared on your longlist with two different titles and two different author names – unlikely most years but depending on how they handled translations, not impossible. You’d have checked originally but you’d want to check again.

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        • I wonder if there was a large number of works that simply didn’t have enough nominations to be in contention. They could have been eliminated without needing to work out an exact score when the finalists were determined. But, for the statistics those exact scores for lower placed works now need to be calculated.

          Liked by 1 person

          • The longlist of nominations doesn’t go that deep, so these wouldn’t be an issue. However, you wouldn’t do it that way anyway – a machine is going to do the counting so you’d count the lot regardless

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        • There may also be some work to do in getting author, title and publisher information correct for works on the longlist.

          When counting nominations you have to “normalize” enough to recognize that nomination ballots that says e.g.
          – Scalzi, John – Redshirts
          – John Scalzi – Redshirts
          – John Scalzi – The Red Shirts
          are all for the same book – but at that stage you don’t have to check the actual title and publisher info and get everything on the format used on the shortlist, which is something like
          – John Scalzi: “Redshirts – a novel with two codas”, published by Tor Books.

          This is likely to be more work than usual this year, with Chinese works on the longlist. You have to verify latinized spelling of Chinese author name, and get English titles of works that have only been published in Chinese.

          Obviously the months between announcing the finalists and the ceremony has plenty of time to do this for the longlist, but if admins haven’t done it then I can certainly see that it will take time after the con.

          Liked by 2 people

          • Redshirts: A Novel with Three Codas (not two). I’ve sometimes suspected that “Three Codas” is a punning reference to “Tri-Codas” (i.e. Tricorders if one has the right accent)

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            • Scalzi does not have that accent, nor do Hollywood people. There’s Rs in it, we pronounce them. And we don’t pronounce R where it doesn’t appear.

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            • As people who enjoy media (to use Murderbot’s term), I suspect that we’re imaginative enough to come up with all sorts of extrapolations that the creators hadn’t thought of themselves.

              John Rogers, a showrunner on the series Leverage, had a regular feature on his blog where he answered questions about the making of each episode. Sometimes a question went something like: “Why did this character X do that action Y? Was it, one, [convoluted theory]? Was it, two, [very convoluted theory]? Or was it, three, [unbelievably convoluted theory]?”

              Rogers’s response to such questions was usually, “Whichever explanation you think is coolest is the correct one.” 😀

              Liked by 1 person

  10. I noticed earlier today that the Hugo subsite (which seems to be the only Chengdu Worldcon official website that still works, less than a month after the con ended) lists 10 members of the Hugo Awards Subcommittee. This is rather more than the two people who were named on the staff page of the main sites(s) before they disappeared:

    The Hugo Awards Subcommittee 雨果奖评选小组成员
    戴夫·麦卡蒂(负责人)
    Dave McCarty (Administrator)
    本·亚洛
    Ben Yalow
    安·玛丽·鲁道夫
    Ann Marie Rudolph
    戴安·莱西
    Diane Lacey
    陈石
    Shi CHEN
    姜振宇
    Zhenyu JIANG
    姚驰
    Joe YAO
    王雅婷
    Tina WANG
    郭东升
    Dongsheng GUO
    庞博
    Bo PANG

    The main sites just listed McCarty and Jiang, and FWIW some of the Chinese fans are pretty sure that the latter hadn’t been part of the concom for a while.

    Whilst I can imagine that any detailed stats would require the administrator to sign them off, I wonder why the other 8 or 9 people on that subcommittee aren’t able to help get them finished if Dave McCarty is too busy?

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    • I wonder if the large number of people on the committee is itself the holdup. If, for example, everyone has to sign off on the stats before they can be published, they could be waiting to hear back from a couple of people who are not responding to emails—or perhaps saying, “Oh yes, I’ll look at it tomorrow and get back to you,” then not doing it

      Liked by 1 person

    • …or it takes this long to cook up “voting results” which fit to the awards which were given?

      Like

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