I watched Zak Snyder’s Justice League cut (slowly and pieces)

A few weeks ago I rewatched the whole of Marvel’s Infinity War + Endgame but I watched them episodically, in segments of either 20 or 40 minutes. I intended to write about watching it that way but the blog has been busy with other things. The short conclusion is that it is a good idea, Endgame in particular is a TV mini-series stitched together and has more of a story arc over a sequence of smaller narratives than a unified plot.

So I will give an uncharacteristic thumbs up to Zak Snyder. His Wagnerian sized version of 2017’s Jutsice League is really, really long — just short of four hours if you count the credits. However, Snyder has chopped it up into multiple parts with their own chapter headings and for reasons unknown, crammed the film into a TV sized aspect ratio. I don’t know if at some point HBO had suggested that it might be shown episodically but the film has been made to make it easier to watch in parts [ETA: apparently that was exactly the plan].

Does that make the film better? Yes but with a big enormous caveat. This is very much a Zak Snyder film and contains all his intentional problems. It is pretentious, has lots of slow-mo, odd music-video like sequences, many people starring off into the distance to express their inner feelings and, of course, a colour palette that’s best described as “metallic”. The dialogue is grim. The characterisation is angst. It’s a clever but disaffected teenage kid’s idea that goofy comic books are essays on Nietzsche.

This is still not a great contribution to superhero movies but it does have the positive quality of somebody getting to make their own big budget singular vision of what superhero movies could be.

The main plot is the same. Steppenwolf is a baddy come to find the three “mother box” macguffins. Batman and Wonder Woman need to recruit a team to stop him because Superman is dead. Aquaman, The Flash and Cyborg get recruited. Stuff happens. They figure out the only way to stop the baddy is to bring Superman back to life and so on.

It really isn’t a complicated plot, so it seems absurd to say that it is improved by being made longer. The problem is the major beats in both versions of the film depend on a sense of momentousness. Snyder is aiming for epic fantasy as a genre, pushing for a kind of Lord of the Rings of superhero movies. Spending along time getting around to things happening is part of that. In the 2017 version of the film, Superman isn’t dead for very long before he’s alive again. In the Snyder cut, you’ve already watched the equivalent of a regular sized movie before Henry Cavill’s bare chest gets some screen time. That is a weak way to create dramatic tension but it is at least a way of creating dramatic tension. As a consequence the whole sequence does have more impact than in the 2017 version.

The extra space in the film is also a boon for Ray Fisher’s Cyborg. He’s got a lot of back story to cram in and as some of it impinges on the Mother Box Macguffins, it can’t be given as a single infodump. Longer scenes with him and his father round out his character a bit better and overall he feels more central to the film. By contrast, Gal Gadot’s Wonder Woman feels less present than in the 2017 film but I think this is just because in the 2017 film she had the benefit of a more dimensional character courtesy of her solo film.

Does the Snyder cut, validate Snyder’s vision for DC’s shared universe? No. It shows exactly why it wouldn’t ever work. At 242 minutes this is a thin story but as the 2017 version shows, it really does need a lot of time to tell it. Avengers: Infinity War (149 minutes) and Endgame (181 minutes) are longer when combined than Justice League but Infinity War alone covers most of the major plot elements of Justice League. Worse, this film was just meant to be the starting point of a bigger arc of which we get a bit of a peek into with a dystopian epilogue.

If you have access to a streaming service carrying it then worth watching in parts if you have a reasonable degree of Snyder tolerance. If you don’t, then I wouldn’t rush to sign up to a new service just to see it.


45 responses to “I watched Zak Snyder’s Justice League cut (slowly and pieces)”

  1. “…this film was just meant to be the starting point of a bigger arc of which we get a bit of a peak into with a dystopian epilogue.”

    But what if the DC cinematic universe has already peaked?

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    • Yes, I think they canceled the extended universe idea already. This is it.

      “The Batman” is a whole new story (and Bat), I think WW is her own thing, etc.

      I have an extremely low tolerance for Snyder so 4 hours of grimdark slo-mo is right out.

      Also, I am boggled as to why he thought 4:3 was a good ratio for an epic superhero movie. TV sitcoms haven’t been in that ratio for most of this century, let alone movies.

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      • I’m all for directors going with their directorial vision, and that includes what aspect ratio to display a film in. Many great films have been filmed in that or similar in the past, so I really have few qualms about it. What gets me is his reasoning for it, in the article linked by Eli Bishop below:

        “Superheroes tend to be, as figures, they tend to be less horizontal. Maybe Superman when he’s flying, but when he’s standing, he’s more of a vertical. Everything is composed and shot that way, and a lot of the restoration is sort of trying to put that back.”

        Virtually anyone, when standing, is more vertical than horizontal, Zack. That doesn’t mean we should start filming in phone-style portrait mode though.

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      • Virtually anyone, when standing, is more vertical than horizontal, Zack.

        I’m imagining Snyder, at some point after that interview, standing out on a sidewalk looking around him in total amazement: “There people— they’re all vertical! They’re LIKE SUPERHEROES!”

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    • It hasn’t peaked. It was flatlined from the start. No tolerance for Snyder here, I’d prefer a ten hour Catwoman marathon on repeat.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. I never saw any of Snyder’s films prior to Watchmen (I’d heard enough bad things about 300 to avoid it). Watchmen looked spectacular (well, aside from the old age makeup). It was cast almost perfectly. And while there were some odd direction/music choices I mostly liked it overall. Well…except for a certain something I couldn’t quite define. Something about subbing in a Ronald Reagan name check for a Robert Redford one was just weird.

    A few years ago I read an interview where he and his wife said their “passion project” would be a remake of The Fountainhead. Sadly now it all makes some sort of sense.

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    • //except for a certain something I couldn’t quite define//

      Calling a film ‘souless’ is a weak criticism but I can’t think of a better one for Snyder’s Watchman

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      • I dunno, I kinda felt the opposite. To me it really felt like Snyder REALLY REALLY liked Watchmen a whole lot, and wanted to make this movie a whole bunch. But it also felt like he completely and utterly, in every sense, missed the entire point of the Watchmen.

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  3. I think I can live without ever seeing another Zack Snyder film, since Wong Kar-wai has been doing cool slo-mo better and for longer than Snyder, and in films that are actually worth watching.

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  4. Not a Snyder fan, won’t see it.
    The choice of Steppenwolf is a headscratcher. Kirby’s New Gods mythos has so many colorful characters — Granny Goodness, Doctor Bedlam — it would make more sense to use them instead of a generic thug whose dialog is all babbling about how he will crush us, resistance is futile, humanity shall serve, etc., etc.
    Also I can’t believe nobody says “Wow, he really does like smoke and lightning,” or something of the sort.

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    • It’s clearer in this version that Steppenwolf is just Darkseid’s lackey — which also makes him a bit pathetic but in an interesting way. He’s just trying to make his boss happy.

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      • I quite like the joke that went “how can we make this more 2020? – I know, let’s stick some ‘office Zoom meetings’ in there”

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      • Another parallel between Justice League and the first Avengers movie, except that Loki was a fascinating character in his own right, even though he was just Thanos’ lackey.

        Using Steppenwolf is as if Avengers had used the masked character voiced by Alexis Denisoff, who acts as a go-between between Thanos and Loki and who really is just a lackey, as the main villain.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Since the plan was to lead into a film with Darkseid as the main villain, I suppose there might have been an intention to not have him upstaged by his lieutenant? Not that that’s good planning if it gives a film a dull villain.

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      • if “we can’t use an interesting villain, Darkseid won’t look interesting enough” was the reasoning … well, that would be bad. Darkseid can be a fascinating villain, although he’s frequently not written well enough, and way overused (as Keith Giffen said, DC editors pass Darkseid around like a bong).

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      • Darkseid also just looks to much like Thanos (although Thanos is actually the derivative one) – given the popularity of the MCU, it’s a story line they should have put off for the time being.

        It was weird how they just threw away the whole Death of Superman story line as a bonus side plot in Batman v Superman. Doomsday, isn’t interesting as a character but is a great antagonist for Superman. The idea of bringing Batman into that story line also makes sense.

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      • Doesn’t help that the MCU films play up Thanos as a commander of armies, something more integral to Darkseid’s portrayal than Thanos’s in the comics.

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        • Yes, comic book Thanos is also a villain with a broad sliding scale of power. At basic level he’s just a smart guy who is strong and can take a beating but who has to make an effort to get extra-ordinary power. He’s more film-friendly than say Galactus who just eats planets and wears a funny hat.

          Jack Kirby’s cosmic beings are hard to humanise. The Snyder cut maybe is approaching that by emphasizing the distance between superheroes and ordinary people. The MCU went in the opposite direction – even humanising Thanos (and arguably Starlin’s Thanos is a more humanised Darkseid)

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          • Someone in an online discussion said that Kirby’s cosmic characters, good or bad, are extremes (Desaad is absolute cruelty, Darkseid seeks absolute order, Orion embodies battle rage) where Starlin’s good characters are balanced and reject extremes.

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  5. Snyder just reminds me of every adolescent/young douchebro I’ve met who’s just discovered Ayn Rand and thinks she was a great philosopher and a brilliant writer. Instead of a horrible writer and an abysmal person.

    The only difference is he gets millions of dollars to make movies instead of merely boring me silly at a party.

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  6. I’m now about 80 minutes into Zack Snyder’s Justice League. My wife insisted on seeing it! Neither of us liked the theatrical version at all but she was just really curious.

    So far: slow motion Wonder Woman violence, slow motion Aquaman + Nick Cave, slow motion horses being thrown around, slow motion hot dog, slow motion football game.

    Steppenwolf’s armor is incredibly distracting but it’s a really cool effect.

    That was a really ineffective Green Lantern. They could only afford to send one guy, and they picked that guy? Too bad.

    They shouldn’t give the Flash any dialogue, but other than that he’s the best. Not just because he gives Snyder an actual good reason to use slow motion, but also he’s the only person who isn’t either a god or the lord of angst.

    Wonder Woman and Cyborg’s dad got stuck with a LOT of voice-over exposition.

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    • Also it is very entertaining to watch this with someone who knows even less than I do about DC and Kirby lore. “Wait— Dark Side? That’s literally his name?” “Not at all, it’s Darkseid with an E-I-D. He’s kind of cool though except for the name.” “Wait— his planet is literally called Apocalypse?” “Not at all, that’s spelled different too. It’s kind of cool though except for that.” Fortunately, due to the way they garbled up Ciaran Hinds’s voice, she didn’t hear that the other mean guy’s name is DeSaad.

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      • After seeing all 242 minutes of Zack Snyder’s Justice League, I don’t have much more to say except that that was very weird and excessive and sometimes inept, and I did like it a bit better than the theatrical release. So, I guess my opinion is pretty much the same as most people’s opinions.

        I like this grown-up bitter version of Eisenberg’s Lex Luthor more. That’s kind of a low-energy epilogue but I would’ve been fine with ending there; I’m not sure why there was another half a movie after that. Possibly the highest-budget dream scene ever? But I guess Bruce Wayne can afford to cast Jared Leto just for one nightmare.

        My wife pointed out that one side effect of keeping all the Flash’s dorky jokes, but undoing the addition of any humor to anyone else, makes every scene that he’s in kind of unintentionally sad and pathetic: here’s a guy who was desperate for friends, and now he’s hanging out with a bunch of people who never laugh at any of his jokes and don’t even seem to notice that he’s making them.

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    • I’m now 128 minutes into Zack Snyder’s Justice League.

      Something I definitely had not seen before: Cyborg learns about the stock market by watching a giant animated bear and bull try to kill each other (I think they are also on fire).

      Other than that, I remember most of these bits from the previous version, it’s just that every effects shot and every fight element is now twice as elaborate and twice as long. Interestingly(?), a lot of Flash’s dorky jokes are the same here, which I think a lot of people had assumed was Whedon trying to punch up the humor.

      I don’t understand what Steppenwolf is doing when he communes with one of the Motherboxes and has a vision of standing in a big empty field and then smashing fiery designs into the ground. It looks kind of like what Darkseid did in the big flashback battle, but now Steppenwolf is doing it with no one around. Is he just bored?

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      • If that’s the anti-life equation then 1. wasn’t Darkseid’s whole thing supposed to be that he’s always trying to find or complete the anti-life equation, not that he already has it or that his dumbass employees already have it, and 2. why did he have to fight a giant battle after he’d already deployed it? what good is it then?

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        • In the comics, if Darkseid has the equation it’s over. It completely eliminates free will, no saving throw. However Jim Starlin’s godawful “Cosmic Odyssey” redefined it as some kind of alien killer entity, so who knows? And I’ve no idea what the New 52 reboot might have done with it.

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        • I think he forgot about it or lost track of what planet it was on…Even with four hours and lots of exposition, Snyder is still hand waving at major plot events

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    • I’m now 176 minutes into Zack Snyder’s Justice League. Well, now I feel stupid because right after I complained about that confusing vision, they explained it in the very next scene. I guess I just tend to assume, maybe unfairly, that Snyder will never explain anything. Except now I’m actually even more confused, because I don’t understand if Darkseid did or did not have the Anti-Life Equation in the first place, like did he bring it to Earth, or did it somehow just show up there but he didn’t really notice at the time? And then how did everyone forget that the planet where Darkseid once got his ass kicked was the same planet as Earth? If it’s a “lost planet” then how come Steppenwolf knows what Atlanteans and Amazons are? Maybe I’ve lost my mind and it all makes perfect sense to everyone else, but I’d prefer to think that Snyder kind of forgot to finish wiring up this part of the script.

      The big action scenes in this section are working for me way better, though. Things like the insanely unsurvivable physics of the fights, or the higgledy-piggeldy polygon design of Cyborg’s body, seemed cheesier in the original release because they’d been designed with Snyder’s particular flavor of aesthetic madness in mind; they work as long as the whole movie is as mad as that. And I really sincerely enjoyed the Flash vs. Superman sequence that’s depicted as a normal-speed guy dodging a slow guy who could kill him—a fun idea executed convincingly, even if I still find the amount of random sizzly effects to be distracting.

      Oh hey there’s the “(technobabble)” “English!” bit. I’ve heard that line so many times it’s not even a joke now, it’s a quote of a parody of a joke.

      I don’t know what’s funnier, in almost a “was this part written by Dan Clowes for some reason?” way: the meticulous bluntness of the shot composition for “Look, it’s Lois Lane’s pregnancy test kit! Is this foreshadowing? Think about it!”, or the brand name of the pregnancy test being Force Majeure.

      Cyborg is a much bigger and better character now. If all that stuff was in the script before, and not just shoehorned in now, the original release sure did screw Fisher badly, and also missed out on the chance to have a little more dramatic juice semi-animating its Frankensteined form. Snyder’s idea of the Justice League is kind of like a bunch of different exaggerated moods made flesh; one of those has to be angry sadness. He can only go so far in making Batman or Superman or Wonder Woman super-tragic-Gothic (even if Diana is kind of sad about her lost love) because, except when they’re temporarily dead, they’re in good health; Cyborg gets his power from being all fucked up. I was so into this kind of thing as a kid, less so now but I get the appeal.

      I would apologize for writing in your comments at such length, but I’m starting to think as long as this movie exists, I need never feel bad about my lack of brevity.

      Liked by 2 people

  7. They need to compromise and show this version without the slo-mo to make it a decent length. I bet they could get it down to 3 hours, tops.

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    • I do think there is a superior 3 and a quarter hour movie trying to escape this one (15 minutes of sequel/prequel bait, 30 minutes mostly slow motion and other action scenes). Which would be a much better dumb superhero film than the theatrical version.

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    • My husband was driven up the wall by the slow motion and agrees that if they’d had to edit the thing for the movie theater, it would be 3 hours tops just cutting back the slow motion. I thought about watching it in support of Fisher and then decided that no, there was nothing in its 4 hours that would really be worth the 4 hours in addition to the 2.5 I already gave it in the theater where I thought it was okay. I did get to see the Epilogue scenes, though, and may dig up some Cyborg clips later. I do not regret my decision, based on my husband’s experience.

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