Due to possible legal action I have amended the previous post

Larry Correia has expressed concern that my previous post’s headline was defamatory. Now some might look at Larry’s own post and the terms and claims he makes about people and adopt a puzzled expression. However, I always aim to be accommodating.

Archive Link

Naturally I have offered Larry an opportunity to correct any factual issues. He has responded:

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59 thoughts on “Due to possible legal action I have amended the previous post

  1. Correia says that DMCA takedown notices sent to a site which isn’t actually hosting the content are not fake.

    I guess Correia doesn’t understand how the internet works, either.

    Liked by 8 people

    1. As a matter of aesthetics, I’d call them “invalid” or something. They’re genuine DMCA notices, issued at the behest of the person who says they’re authorizing them. It’s just that they’re aimed at inappropriate targets.

      Like

      1. The more I think about it, the less I like “fake” in this context. If Fox had just said “I’ve got a DMCA take-down order here in my pocket”, or sent a tampered-with screenshot, or something like that, that would be fake. In this case, it seems like “fraudulent” or “abusive” is more to the point.

        I may be straining at gnats, but people I care about are in the midst of some fresh abuse aimed at portraying their identities as fake, so it’s on my mind.

        Like

      2. Fair enough. Words do matter. Bad faith is the appropriate term I think. For example, Fox only complained about the link here once I’d posted a negative review of his story and after he’d come off badly in a series of discussion on other related posts.

        Liked by 2 people

  2. Hmmm, I suppose “fake” would imply some level of intent to deceive, and it’s now possible that Fox is *merely* ignorant of how links work and how his files could possibly have escaped into the wild, making the notices dumb rather than deceptive, so I guess better safe than sorry.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. This whole thing had me googling DCMA last night, and I found a disturbing number of sites purporting to tell you have to file one that blatantly said that “linking to a file or story on another site” as infringing. While the more rigorous legal sites make it clear that only download links when one “knowingly and materially” induces others to pirate count.

      So I can attribute the DCMA itself as ignorance instead of maliciousness, but the language Fox hurled at Mike G. after the initial contact, and how blithely threw around insults here when he started half-assed replying to comments pushes me over to the malicious side of Occam’s Razor. Maybe he really didn’t know how the file got on GoogleDrive, et cetera, but I clearly the intent was to harass.

      Both Correia and Fox default to a seemingly pathological lack of empathy or perspective.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Captain Renault: And what in heaven’s name brought you to Casablanca?
        Rick Blaine quote: My health. I came to Casablanca for the waters.
        Captain Renault: The waters? What waters? We’re in the desert.
        Rick Blaine: I was misinformed.

        – Casablanca

        Anyone can be mistaken – goodness I have been, just in the last hour, in a comment on the post before this one. What matters is what we do next, whether we take the opportunity to learn and do better in accordance with a better understanding of the truth or whether we dig in, refuse to learn, and do worse and worse.

        I am 100% willing to believe that Fox didn’t intend to make his Nebula submission publicly available. Someone yesterday mentioned that in at least some cases, Gmail automatically sets up a Google Drive link for big files, and there other ways (as discussed at some length, to put it mildly). I have unintentionally made drafts of projects I was editing publicly available at least twice over the years. What’s damning is all the stuff that comes after that.

        Judging from the kind of attention he pays here, I suspect he basically ignored most of what JJ and Our Gracious Host were telling him in February/March, and that he was thinking something like “People I don’t like are sharing my stuff, I’ll make them stop.” And they did, but he didn’t get the clue about what they had been doing and what they did in response to his demands. Then the File 770 thing came along, and he still hadn’t paid attention.

        Either of those moment would have been good for thinking, “Wait, hold on, just how do they have this in the first place?”, followed by checking what they had (link vs. file), looking at the SFWA public and private sites, and like that. Instead, he went for the DMCA, abusively. As nearly as I can tell, he still doesn’t understand anything of what happened beyond his intent to share stuff on the private part of the SFWA site. At all. And he’s got a collection of bullies and liars to reinforce his ignorance, alas.

        So yeah, like you said: “Maybe he really didn’t know how the file got on GoogleDrive, et cetera, but I clearly the intent was to harass.”

        Liked by 1 person

  3. 1. Sad Pups lie. it is what they do.
    2. Correia has basically admitted that he doesn’t understand how the DMCA process works, and also doesn’t understand what “piracy” means.
    3. The idea that Correia would sue someone on a different continent for defamation based on the title of the previous post is pretty laughable. Among other things, each and every post he makes damages his reputation far more than everything anyone else has posted on the internet combined, including his comments in the quoted exchange with Cam.

    Liked by 4 people

  4. A person can choose loutishness as their distinguishing characteristic, but how could that seem like a good idea? Why would anyone choose to be known as “oh, that jerk; yeah, they always act like that”?

    Liked by 4 people

  5. I really dislike it when people present their vices as virtues, as in this case, where abusive conduct is called ‘just saying what I mean,’ and mistreating and insulting others is somehow considered to be just plain speaking. It particularly makes me cringe with Correia, because I hate the idea that people might consider him a typical example of the members of our shared faith- he is not.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. There’s also the fact that he has been known to “not say what he means”. For example, his initial Worldcon report was quite different from the account he gave of the even after the Sad Puppy campaign started. One of those is clearly false.

      Liked by 2 people

    1. Not only is whale faeces ecologically useful, according to that article it floats. As a sea-level phenomenon, whale faeces is pretty much as close to centre on a high-to-low scale as you can get. There are many, many things lower than whale faeces.

      Liked by 5 people

      1. A correction. Sea level is around 55% of the way between the deepest abyssal depths (Challenger Deep in the Mariana Trench at 10,994 meters below sea level) and the peal of Everest (8,848 above sea level).

        It is therefore entirely possible to be lower than whale shit and still be above the median.

        Liked by 4 people

  6. Larry Correia threatens to sue someone for defamation. That’s rich, considering that pretty much everything Correia posts that’s not about painting toy figurines falls under NetzwerkDG (German anti-Internet hate speech law).

    Liked by 4 people

    1. Well, if he behaves on Facebook like he behaves on his blog, I’m not surprised he keeps getting suspended. Though I doubt that Mike or Cam have anything to do with it. Most likely someone who happened to see his Facebook posts took exception and reported him.

      Liked by 1 person

  7. I read through most of Larry’s rather scatological posting, and while it’s disgusting, I have to agree it doesn’t quite rise to the level of him urging people to file fake DMCA requests as a harassment tactic. Changing the post title was probably the right thing to do.

    However, after reading that page, I’d hesitate before reading anything else by him. I’m surprised that kind of revolting garbage sits well with his fans. Or the people at his church, for that matter. Or kids–anyone’s kids. It’s the sort of thing that makes you look bad even if you’re in the right–and much worse when you’re not.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. @Greg —

      “I’m surprised that kind of revolting garbage sits well with his fans. Or the people at his church, for that matter.”

      I know, right?

      I lived in Salt Lake City for five years, and for the most part I found Mormons to be extremely civil, friendly people. Much more in the Sanderson mold than the Correia mold.

      Liked by 4 people

    2. You’ve apparently not been reading much of Correia’s posts over the last few years. Because this one is just par for his usual course. And I agree that even if he were in the right — which he’s not — it would be pretty bad, but since he’s not, it’s much worse.

      Liked by 2 people

    3. once upon a time, I voluntarily bought more than one book by Larry Correia. Eminently readable. I wouldn’t call them, based on recollection, stellar. I would call them competently written (if, at times, a bit formulaic). Then, 2014 happened. And then 2015 happened. And I ain’t buying another book by the man, so it’s definitely the case that his behaviour has lost him at least one reader.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I bounced off his original monster hunter book, but the premise really appealed to me, so I gave it another couple shots with the same results. Then 2014 happened…

        Liked by 1 person

      2. “I bounced off his original monster hunter book, but the premise really appealed to me, so I gave it another couple shots with the same results. Then 2014 happened…”

        I had a lot of fun with the first MH book. Somewhat less fun with book 2, and entirely bored by book 3. I own at least one of the Grimnoir books, but I haven’t read it. And I did buy both of his recent fantasy books in audio, on sale, because he used one of my favorite narrators in the whole world. I haven’t listened to them, though.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Contrarius: I had a lot of fun with the first MH book. Somewhat less fun with book 2, and entirely bored by book 3.

        That almost exactly describes my experience. By the end of book 3, I’d gotten to “meh” and didn’t go any further. I did try the Grimnoir book when it got slated onto the Hugo ballot, but it was also really “meh”, so I DNF’ed it early on.

        After 2015, I no longer felt obligated to ever have anything to do with any of his work. I’ve got way too many books which I know I will enjoy on my TBR to need to spend time reading meh works by a toxic asshole whose behavior on any is far worse than that of my 3-year-old nephew on a bad day.

        Liked by 2 people

      4. “After 2015, I no longer felt obligated to ever have anything to do with any of his work.”

        Yeah, I feel ya. But Tim Gerard Reynolds, the narrator for the fantasies, is just sooooo gooooooood…..

        Liked by 2 people

  8. re: Larry’s 3-day Facebook ban

    Well, my goodness. Judging from the screenshots here, I can’t imagine why anyone would think Larry Correia would post hate speech!!

    (heavy sarcasm, if that isn’t obvious) 🙄🙄

    Liked by 7 people

  9. “…that kind of revolting garbage…”

    Agreed. I didn’t think anything could be worse than VD’s page and his comment section, but Correia’s blog and his comment section have changed my mind. That’s some evil filth over there.

    Liked by 2 people

  10. I know it’s just performance art (“art” used loosely) for his blog followers, but I do get the sense many of them, and even Larry himself, think that that sort of verbal diarrhea is actually doing anything other than soiling the fronts of their own shirts.

    Liked by 4 people

  11. I just did an experiment: I opened up Gmail and picked some files of books I contributed to, and sent them to my iCloud/Me.com address. I dragged the files over and got this notice:

    https://imgur.com/OQei9w2

    And then a moment later, Apple Mail had a message for me whose body was just a set of links, each one opening up to something like this, with the right file name in each case:

    https://imgur.com/SX2OcxD

    (I’ve since removed the files, so the link won’t work.)

    So, as someone noted in the previous post, that can happen. And if you’re too busy being certain you know what you’re doing, rather than paying attention to what’s actually happening on screen, you might well miss that process, particularly with files not far above the 25 Mb threshold.

    But that still doesn’t mean that anyone, at SFWA or anywhere else, engaged in piracy.

    Liked by 3 people

  12. And I see that someone’s still attached to the whole ‘FieldsyFlap’ thing, too, from the first message about ‘that might actually be amusing for the discovery because then we can see if Brad and Jim are right about his secret identity.’

    Not to mention that the bit at the end about hate speech is rather an own goal, isn’t it?

    It really is something that whenever you make a comment about something they say, it’s all ‘grow up, you namby-pamby’, but when they feel the slightest bit offended by anything you say, it’s ‘I DARE YOU TO SAY THAT TO MY FACE!’

    Liked by 3 people

      1. They’re all like, what did he say? Do I need to pursue legal action? I mean, no, courts are not your grievance buddies. As litigious as Americans are, we also have very strong 1st Amendment protections and firm laws about what is and is not infringement. And suing someone internationally is not an easy thing to do even if you know who they are — laws differ greatly. But apparently they think it makes them sound tough to threaten to sue everyone every five minutes now.

        When Amazon shot the e-book market into rocketspeed and publishers were frantically trying to turn their wares into retail e-book files that would work without typos, we had a ton of “information wants to be free” folk who believed the expansion of the e-book market would revolutionize all, which to them seemed to be that they could then have any book they wanted for free or for a lesser fee on pirate sites. They rationalized pirating e-books as not really theft from authors, and you still run into a lot of it today. I had long online conversations back then explaining that yes, downloading unauthorized e-books is theft/piracy, even if it’s highly unlikely you’ll ever be taken to task legally for doing it. Actual piracy is a real problem for authors. Actual infringement is a very real business concern. So I’m definitely not a pro-piracy person.

        But a bunch of people sharing a link to what seemed an official, free short story that was a Nebula nominee isn’t piracy by any stretch of the imagination. It’s just silly. It makes them look foolish. Threatening to sue people constantly, screaming at people who tried to help them with free publicity, ranting about SJW’s as if that will make a bunch of authors disappear from the market — this is a marketing plan? I guess it works for the narrow audience they are courting, but it gives everybody else a headache.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. this is a marketing plan?

        Indeed. After witnessing Richard’s cringe-worthy immaturity and all-around asshattery in this space, and not once but twice, I wouldn’t nominate him for anything if he was the last, best writer on Earth.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. There is also the good old rule: anyone publicly threatening to sue, especially on the Internet….won’t.

        On the old NANAE newsgroup this behaviour was called a cartooney (conflation of ‘cartoon attorney’, of course). Anyone serious about being damaged does not announce a suit, they file it. The first the other party would hear about it is the legal papers langing in their mailbox.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. On the old NANAE newsgroup this behaviour was called a cartooney (conflation of ‘cartoon attorney’, of course).

        …Followed swiftly by threats of lawsuites.

        TINLC.

        Liked by 1 person

  13. Well, Correia’s potty-mouth has convinced me never to buy anything with his name on it. That’s some stellar marketing right there. Geez, he sounds like some twelve-year-old edgelord gamer brat.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. I read a couple of Correia’s books, and that convinced me to not read anything more from him. His stuff is somehow simultaneously ponderously self-important and idiotic juvenalia. The fact that his online persona is a disagreeable harassment-campaign-loving conspiracy theorist just made that decision easier.

      Like

  14. Sad Larry doesn’t play chickenshit harassment games, which is why he ran a multi-year harassment campaign against the Hugos, harasses Mike Glyer at any opportunity, buys into and amplifies conspiracy theories by his crackpot friends that are designed to harass people, brings in known assholes and harassers like Ted Beale into his schemes, etc etc etc…

    Is it any wonder that some of us choose to use pseudonyms when we comment on these things? (I choose to use pseudonyms for much less serious reasons too)

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Sounds even more like a bratty adolescent gamer. Dude needs to grow up and/or stop taking Harlan Ellison as a role model in a half-assed way. (Ellison didn’t mess around–he didn’t do harassment campaigns with crackpot friends, and make baseless legal threats; he just straight-up sued you. With real lawyers and real facts, though maybe questionable legal theories).

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Silly to reply to myself, but I can’t find an edit button. To add: I use this pseudonym because I’ve been using it for over 25 years (started on Usenet), and am far better known under it than by my real name.

        Liked by 2 people

  15. Gawd the name calling. How can you ever expect to be taken seriously by serious people when you fall back on these stupid pet names and jerk tags?

    Today I was reading about the US withdrawing from some international board related to international mail fees. This is an area I know nothing about. However, just reading the language that the controlling party in the US uses right now makes me distrust all their positions on anything, even if they might be right about this particular issues. It’s the name calling.

    If I went into work tomorrow and called someone I disagree with an asshole, just because, I would get fired. And that would be the correct response. My work involves the possibility of going to court, and I comport myself with the expectation that what I say or write could be read out loud to a group of people I don’t know, or be published in newspapers. How can an author, a person who makes their living through careful communication, think these are appropriate responses?

    … unless you’re actually a marketer ultimately writing ad copy for an audience that feeds on this crap. In the end, I can’t blame Fox or Correia. They’re only reinforcing the audiences that created them, part of a ring-shaped human centipede gorging on their own vehement shit. Again I have to ask my future self, where does all this lead for the genre?

    I apologize for ranting on your blog, but reading LC’s screed was like watching bukkake between him and his fans, and I don’t like how it made me feel as all the commenters licked their lips and smiled.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. “I apologize for ranting on your blog, but reading LC’s screed was like watching bukkake between him and his fans, and I don’t like how it made me feel as all the commenters licked their lips and smiled.”

      Ewwwwww.

      Liked by 1 person

    1. Is it that difficult? I haven’t tried it, but we did sue someone in Tennessee (a building contractor), and that’s 3 time-zones away from Seattle, so it was still a long-distance lawsuit. We managed it by e-mail with a 30-minute phone call once a month. The local law firm handled all the details, including tracking down his assets to collect on the judgment. We didn’t even have to show up in court. I’ll bet the experience with Australian lawyers would be comparable.

      Cam did the right thing here. Although (in my opinion) his original title didn’t really amount to libel, he didn’t really lose anything by making it less–shall we say–sensational, and he avoided what could have been a lot of aggravation.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I doubt Larry would sue, aside from anything else he’d said more obviously defamatory things in his main post AND mocked people for saying ‘slander’. The issue isn’t Larry taking legal action but some lesser chucklehead following the idea and thinking an actual lawsuit is viable for something else.

        That said, always worth taking legal threats at least semi-seriously. As JDA has demonstrated, people will attempt vexatious lawsuits with little merit.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Well, there’s this minor matter that Australia has an entirely different legal system than the USA does, and (for example) their definition of Libel differs greatly from that of the USA.

        Also, Lawyers from the USA are not members of the Australian Bar, so Larry’s Cartooney would need to hire a Barrister to represent him in the Australian Courts, which costs a bit…

        Liked by 1 person

      3. No, I didn’t want to imply that. It’s just that there’s a lot more difficulty than simply hiring a law firm a few time zones away. Much more difficulty than Larry probably is equipped to understand.

        What Larry thinks is actionable in the USA may not be in Australia. And that comment about Discovery? It doesn’t work the way he thinks it does.

        Like

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