Ringo on Correia?

Rumblings continue in the Puppylands around Larry Correia’s dis-invitation to the Origins Game Fair. At Larry Correia’s own blog, he has been arguing that his supporters should NOT target vendors attending Origins as he sees the fault lying mainly with the convention organiser.

Interestingly in the comments there is a notable dissenting voice on this: http://monsterhunternation.com/2018/05/15/statement-concerning-my-being-disinvited-as-the-guest-of-honor-for-origins-game-fair/#comment-89744

“John Ringo

I disagree, strongly, with ‘don’t screw the vendors.’

This is going to go on and on as long as cons allow it. The ones who stand up may survive. The ones who cave have to fold. The way to get them to fold is to hit them in the wallet. It’s the only thing that will work.

So, yes, tell your fans to hit the vendors. Hit the authors who do attend. Refuse to go to the con. Ask the pros who are attending, why they support bullying. Don’t buy their books. Don’t buy their products.

Boycott, Divest, Sanction.

We need to stop rolling over and BRING THE PAIN.”

I don’t know if that is the John Ringo but it would be odd for Larry to let the comment stand if it was somebody impersonating Ringo. If it is him that it is a very bold statement that I think organisers of conventions would pay careful attention to but perhaps not in the way the writer imagines. As I pointed out in an earlier post not even considering inviting some people would be the easiest way to avoid that kind of pushback. As a way of demonstrating that outspoken right wing authors are a good choice to invite as a guest speakers, it looks like the exact opposite of a good plan. Partly, that’s why I’m wondering if the comment is genuine or whether it is some unknown person sh_t-stirring?

People should also be mindful of giving support to people who may be suffering from being targeted by Larry Correia’s fans at the moment.

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47 thoughts on “Ringo on Correia?

  1. Based on item 15 on today’s Pixel Scroll, it seems pretty clear that comment really is from Ringo.

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      1. You know you’ve been studying Japanese too much when your first thought is “what do apples have to do with Correia”

        Poor John, upstaged by fruit.

        Also, never underestimate the sheer, blithering stupidity of the Puppy crowd. They still haven’t quite got their heads around how we can all see the things they write in public on the internet.

        Liked by 5 people

  2. Applying pressure via sponsors/advertisers/etc seems to be a pretty popular tactic at the moment. So long as it’s a simple matter of non-abusive lobbying to achieve an affect through economic pressure I don’t see any problems with it. Of course, it turns abusive far too often.

    Liked by 3 people

  3. It seems an odd tactic for Ringo to take to “prove” he isn’t a toxic person deserving of being excluded from events to double down on being a toxic person deserving of being excluded from events.

    Liked by 4 people

    1. And now Ringo is calling for bringing in the Gamergaters to punish conventions. Gosh, why wouldn’t you want to invite him?

      Liked by 4 people

    1. Their actions tend to remind me of the last line of a dirty joke I was told, long ago: “Just then a coconut falls on the oblivious elephant’s head and she grunts a little, and the mouse continues humping with redoubled vigor, crying out, ‘Suffer, baby, suffer!'”

      Liked by 1 person

    2. In the event Ringo et al actually go ahead with it (which seems to me unlikely, follow-through and hard work not being Puppy attributes) it will simply reveal, again, that they are completely delusional about their numbers and influence.

      Liked by 2 people

  4. Boycott, Divest, Sanction.

    Given that the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Movement is an existing movement with growing traction boycotting Israel until they withdraw from Palestinian territories (and based in part on a similar movement against South Africa), I suspect that particular set of words was very explicitly chosen to evoke a reaction.

    Particularly since there’s a large contingent of the evangelical right which is both antisemitic and also pro-Israel, because they know that’s where the Apocalypse has to start.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Yeah, that’s what I thought too when I read that very particular (and very politically-charged) formulation.

      It’s a ridiculously over-the-top reaction to what was certainly an unthinking, rude and embarrassing turn of events that could easily have been avoided. But for so many others to 1) feel this was also an attack on them and 2) respond with such extreme hostility shows exactly what Alexandra Erin summarized nicely: a complete and total lack of perspective that is actually quite dangerous and bears serious attention.

      This recent event is a small and stupid slight, something that happens to all of us, jointly and severally, literally hundreds or thousands of times in our lives. Don’t get a promotion or job or date or grant or make the sports team or have stories rejected or a neighbor ignores your request to be quiet or someone cuts you off in traffic or….. any number of things whereby healthy and reasonable people say, oh well and move on.

      I find this language — and the heavily armed, all-or-nothing attitude that accompanies it — to be very very alarming. It indicates a complete inability to keep things in perspective, to take every perceived (or even real) slight as something intensely personal, every inch to be defended, that every slight is a threat to their entire existence. There is really no healthy perspective here at all. There are real, growing mortal threats in the world at the moment, but this ain’t one of them.

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      1. “I find this language — and the heavily armed, all-or-nothing attitude that accompanies it — to be very very alarming. It indicates a complete inability to keep things in perspective, to take every perceived (or even real) slight as something intensely personal, every inch to be defended, that every slight is a threat to their entire existence. ”

        That’s the thing I find so striking about all of this: the language. From “We. Have. Had. Enough.” to “BRING THE PAIN”. And Messr. Ringo’s description of what happened to L.C. as ‘bullying’. I just can’t believe that Larry Correia, a decently-selling author who sells (or is it sold?) guns *for a living* was in any way, shape or form bullied by the organizers of a gaming convention in the exact middle of Ohio.

        It reminds me of all those dimwits out there who somehow have managed to conclude that straight white men are the most oppressed group in the entire U.S. Even in my wildest experiments with hallucinogens 40 years ago I never managed to conjure up such a completely unreal view of life. And that includes the college trip when my English professor’s head turned into a giant purple sponge-like form which insisted on discussing John Milton with us.

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      2. The asymmetry is substantial. The expectation is that “they’/“them’/“SJWs”/“liberals” etc are overly sensitive, too easily alarmed, unforgiving and unable to take jokes and over react to insults which should just be taken on the chin like a manly man. Whereas, for themselves perceived slights, insults etc should be reacted too as maximally as viable.

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      3. Here’s the template for how RWers think they come off in debates online. We’re the fuse-blowing evolution professor and they’re the calm, respectful college student. They believe that’s who they are even when they started off with a personal insult and now they’re pounding it out in all caps with three exclamation points after every sentence fragment. Ladies and gents, Mr. Jack T. Chick: https://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0055/0055_01.asp

        Liked by 3 people

      4. In an interesting coincidence, a few months ago I spotted this particular tract discarded by the sidewalk. I thought it was fairly amazing that in a passing glance I could identify it as a Chick tract and predict what the story would be like. (It wasn’t one I was familiar with.) Say what you like about Chick, but his branding was pretty strong.

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  5. I’ve been engaging with a sealion over in James Nicoll’s Dreamwidth. The sealion has not allowed themselves to see any of Ringo’s bad behaviour. I wonder what they will say to this?

    Liked by 3 people

    1. Jessica: I’ve been engaging with a sealion over in James Nicoll’s Dreamwidth. The sealion has not allowed themselves to see any of Ringo’s bad behaviour.

      I took a look at that thread, and yes, the fact that this person didn’t see anything wrong with the behavior which Ringo himself reported in his RavenCon document tells me that their judgment is… shall we say, far-right-aligned. I doubt that they will see anything wrong with Ringo’s advocacy of a scorched-earth policy toward Origins, either.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. The Puppy is still trying to argue with me, rehashing all the earlier lies and giving themselves away by using Puppy dogwhistle words. Now they’re accusing me of “badthink” for continually pointing out their lies and distortions.

        Liked by 1 person

  6. Well, I gather from the above that there isn’t even agreement among that crowd about whether to boycott, “bring the pain,” etc. Sounds like Ringo is advocating for it and Correia (possibly with some recognition that publicly quarreling with game-related companies would not be in his own best interest?) is discouraging it.

    Even when that entire crowd seemed unified in their decision to boycott Tor (but never able to agree about what their “demands” were–some wanted people fired, some were against that and instead wanted retractions and/or apologies and/or reprimands, and it was all quite muddled, and VD wanted Tor to burn to the ground and the ruined wreck of earth beneath the ashes to be heavily salted)…

    Where was I? Oh, yes. Even when they did all seem to be in agreement about boycotting Tor, it was commercially irrelevant to Tor (and, indeed, led to increased support for Tor Books among everyone who was NOt part of their crowd, including people like me who had such nightmarish experiences writing for Tor that it took me years to stop flinching involuntarily anytime someone said “Tor” in my presence).

    So this seems unlikely to amount to anything more than standard Puppy-fare of some people writing Mean Things to-and-about the con and maybe a few of the sponsors, exhibitors, or writers who attend.

    Mostly, public exhortations to inflict pain on the con, the committee, the sponsors, exhibitors, and vendors, and the writers who attend or appear on programming…. probably just serve to suggest to various conventions, editors, and publishers that it’s best to avoid dealing with the visible ringleaders of that crowd.

    Liked by 2 people

      1. I’ve noticed this across the right-wing spectrum – there seems to be this belief in something I’m thinking might be a sort of cargo-cult version of activism. You turn out in the streets, you yell slogans, you organise a boycott of something, and this makes whatever you wanted (even if you don’t know what this is) magically appear. And they’re always a bit baffled when it doesn’t seem to work quite as well as it did for the folks on the left when they were asking for things like civil rights and so on.

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  7. It’s all so overblown, like teens or tweens who think everything that happens to them is so!important!to!the!universe! and that therefore everyone must pay attention and everything must go XTREEEEEEMMMMEEE!

    Or else they’re gonna go off by themselves, wear all black, listen to death metal, and draw skulls on all their notebooks.

    Liked by 1 person

      1. It appeared yesterday, but only if you click on an individual entry: all the stuff that used to be at the bottom (links for Twitter, Goodreads, archives) is now sidebarred, so the comments now occupy about two-thirds of the width of the screen (at least on my tablet, I haven’t checked my laptop, which I suspect given the aspect ratio of the display is unaltered).

        Liked by 1 person

      2. On my laptop, the actual commenty bit is slightly less than half the screen now.

        There’s a blank column on the left, a vertical line and little space, and then the comment words (just under 4 columns’ width), and then “The Wine Cellar” column of old stuff, and another blank column, and then the Tweet/Goodreads/Library/Tags/Search column.

        And of course the comments get less wide as they nest. Feeling like the trash compacter in “Star Wars”.

        Since “Wine Cellar” and “Library” seem to be the same thing, if it was my page, I’d delete the “Cellar” as it seems to require two whole columns to copy redundant info.

        Liked by 1 person

  8. I was initially surprised at Ringo’s sideswipe at JDA (surely a call to ban folks who worry about their safety at a con is a reference to JDA), but then I recall that JDA subtweeted Ringo the other day by noting that Ringo made radical leftists the heroes of his books (the ones he cowrote with Kratman.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. I haven’t read them, but can’t imagine there’s any universe in which a Ringo/Tank Marmot book would feature radical leftists at all favorably.

      Ringo is certainly within his rights to snark about that kind of stupidity. I mean, I’m one of those commie pinko SJWs and even I’m annoyed on his behalf by this.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. The Body-Cam-Man contends that the Nazis were left-wing. Thus Ringo and Kratman’s novel is about heroic radical leftists saving humanity from alien threat.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Ah, that would be the crusty old lie which claims the “National Socialist” party name really means that the Nazis were left-wingers all along?

        Liked by 2 people

    2. I suspect that the sideswipe was unintentional. The story being told in Puppyland right now is that some of the people who objected to Ringo and Correia as guests of honor asserted that they would have felt unsafe had those authors attended. The Ringo “ban anyone who says they feel unsafe” is clearly aimed at those people. The fact that this also would argue in favor of banning JDA is probably accidental and the result of Ringo simply not thinking things through.

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      1. Yes; they’ll never allow themselves to parse the sentence “John Scalzi has never done anything to make people feel unsafe in his presence.”

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      2. John Scalzi’s existence makes them feel unsafe. Because they’re snowflakes. But they wouldn’t admit it.
        I’ve found him to be quite charming and helpful the few times I’ve met him.

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  9. I was noticing how the rhetoric is basically that of professional wrestling and I was thinking “They know that’s all fake, right?”

    Then I remembered their president is a big supporter of WWE (and vice versa), even appearing on it.

    I guess honest, good theater is the purview of the SJWs so they can only use ersatz, bad theater.

    Liked by 2 people

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