Gamma-pride or Vox loses the plot

Vox has written another lengthy post about how I didn’t win the recent argument with him at all, no, no, he won and not me, because I’m a gamma and he is very clever and…wow.

Seriously, I think Vox might need a cuddle. Here, this will cheer him up.






  1. KR

    Read it. Marveled at it. Where does Irony fit in with Rhetoric and Dialectic and Narrative (that demanding mistress) I wonder? it would seem to me that there is a lot of 3rd Law projection going on there and comically zero self-awareness.

    To ban someone from a blog site simply for disagreeing, debating, debunking or for having an different opinion seems to be kind of thing that lands people on their formal SJW list (quote: if you’ve “advocated or enforced the persecution of someone with different political opinions”). Pretty cowardly stuff for someone with a bachelor’s in the philosophy of science from Chicago. I think you’ve been unpersoned, CF.

    I’m currently reading manuscripts with analogous debates, feuds and tantrums but transposed to the early 19th century and finding the parallels (even in word choice and example) to be striking. There was even a commentator called Philolethes! My favourite quote of the day : “The Corsican has offended me, & even his turnout out the Mamalukes [sic] will not atone for his rascally constitution. The French are children with the physical force of men, unworthy & therefore incapable of freedom. Once I had hopes – The Jacobines [sic] might have done much – but the base of morality was wanting, & where could the cornerstone be laid? … Still however the English are the first people – and the only men. Buonaparte has made me Anti-Gallican, – & I remember Alfred & the two Bacons, & Hartley, & Milton & Shakespeare with more patriotic pride than ever.”

    Close second: “I am heartily tired, impatient to be gone – half-sick with expectation – & restless enough to require a page of Epictetus.” Ah, the calming dulcet tones of a stoic. Maybe the next volley can expand to dazzle and include Discourse and Enchiridae? Please?


  2. RDF

    You know, you can actually see him flailing around at the end, when he concatenates several different comments from several different commentators and ascribes them to Micael.

    You’re really getting under his skin, Camestros. I guess someone whose mother helped put his daddy in jail might have a few weak points he doesn’t want probed…


  3. The Phantom

    “My claim is that I can’t reward obnoxious behavior by Castalia House.”

    Yeah, your claim is you can’t reward Castalia House… and you don’t care how good that Gene Wolfe book is. Quality of the work is irrelevant, what matters is who voted for it.

    We know. We’ve been saying it for four years. One would think you’d cede the point by now, Steve Davidson and Damien Walter certainly have. They’ve declared it in letters of fire and moved on to banning the miscreant Puppies for life. Gee, I might not be allowed to pay forty bucks next year to an organization full of people that hate my guts just so I can vote in a book contest?


    And by the way, your banner? “even when we’re being honest we come across as disingenuous” That’s true. You do seem like one of those guys for whom honesty is a ploy, one of many and not a favorite.


    • camestrosfelapton

      “What mattets is who voted fot it”
      Nope – and it is interesting that critics of what I said can only counter what I said by pretending I said something else 🙂
      I’m going to vote for stuff that Rabids probably also voted for and in 2015 I didn’t rule out any Sad/Rabid nominees without reading and considering each of them.
      What I wont do is reward a Publisher who wants to destroy the Hugos. Why would any sane petson do that unless they wanted to see the Hugos destroyed.
      “We’ve been saying it for four years” no you havent – you (or at least Larry C) have been making vague claims of political bias which he has been unable to substantiate. The Sads have also claimed that Vox wants to burn down the Hugos. Were they lying? So I think the lectures from the “boycott Tor books” crowd that somehow I have to give Castalia House works the fair hearing that THEY don’t believe in for an award that they think should be burnt down are just hypocritical BS. A writer for Castalia can’t have it borh ways – they can’t cry “fair play” or call the award an honor AND be part of a campaign aimed at stopping everyone from being considered for a Hugo.
      I’ll credit Vox at least with the honesty of being open about what he is dping. He and I agree that you cant seperate the Castalia house nominees from the publisher.


  4. The Phantom

    “Nope – and it is interesting that critics of what I said can only counter what I said by pretending I said something else:)”

    I was just looking at what you left unsaid, but implied.

    See, this is why you get the disingenuous label. The “I never said that!” ploy after asking “when did you stop beating your wife.”

    Do you know why all the lawyer jokes go “What do you call ten thousand lawyers in a leaky boat?” and the answer comes back “A good start!” Because of shit like what you’re doing here. Do you know why Trump is the Republican nominee? Because Americans are getting really sick of it. They’re picking the wrong guy of course, but that’s why they picked him.

    ““We’ve been saying it for four years” no you havent – you (or at least Larry C) have been making vague claims of political bias which he has been unable to substantiate.”

    “Vague claims of political bias.” Ok, from yesterday’s Vile Scroll, the reception of the Locus Award finalists by the Femmerati: SEXIST!!!!! Yet another vague example of idiots demanding authors be sorted by plumbing and genetics rather than books be read and sorted by enjoyment. But -I- am the bigot because I wanted to know why plumbing was important to the stories.

    I think the claims have been more than amply substantiated over the years, and for you to say they haven’t been is patent foolishness. It’s obviously partisan, and obviously political. Pervasively.

    External Reality Check: Last year we had mildly conservative or politically agnostic authors on the Hugo ballot all over the place, and we got assterisks and entire categories being voted No Award.

    This year we’ve got Space Raptor Buttheads, due entirely to last year’s assholery by “vaguely partisan” fans. Many people were moved to pay a bunch of money to serve y’all a big steaming cup of F- Off.

    Meanwhile you’re still trying to hide behind “I never said that!” Yeah, you’re right. You never said it. You totally win. Happy Space Raptors, winner dude. That’s your prize for playing the game the way you have been. Next year it’ll be Mary Sue fanfic written by 8 year olds.


    • camestrosfelapton

      “This year we’ve got Space Raptor Buttheads, due entirely to last year’s assholery”

      Whereas last year we had Wisdom from My Internet, Zombie Nation and interminable reams of adjective filled waffle from John C Wright.
      Tingle is not some new low. At worst it is consistent with some of the dreck Brad Torgersen foisted onto the ballot and it may well be better (at least Tingle is actually consistently funny on social media unlike Williamson*)

      So if we are looking at points proven consider this. Nearly everybody (some Castalalia House nominees excepted) agrees that Vox is out to wreck and discredit the Hugo Awards – Larry says this, Brad says this, Vox says this – pretty much a universal consensus. Yet Vox manages to nominate stuff that is BETTER than what Brad nominated! heck EVEN THE JIM BUTCHER NOVEL on the ballot this year is a massive improvement than the one Brad got nominated!
      What are we to make of the fact that an active campaign to destroy the Hugos STILL manages to nominate better quality work than Brad’s campaign supposedly to save them?

      *[whom I am told is funny in person but is woefully unfunny in print]