Follow up to ‘Trump, Cruz, Rabid & Sad’

In a previous post I looked at how the US Republican Party nomination process was playing out in Sad Land and Rabidonia. This is a short update.

The main thing to note is that, as far as I can tell, most notable Puppies aren’t saying a great deal about it. Which is wise and maybe some are quiet Bernie Sanders supporters (OK probably not). However the vocal ones are very vocal.

The two major voices are:

  • Vox Day – supporting Donald Trump
  • Sarah Hoyt – supporting Ted Cruz

This discussion is getting a tad heated with each poster refering to the other’s position. Sarah Hoyt avoids naming Vox, I think to avoid summoning anti-Vox trolls. Vox is lambasting Sarah and is throwing some nasty digs her way:

Now, she is right about one thing. I will not be Portuguese or Italian or German no matter how long I live in Europe. Here, you can move from a neighboring village that is a 10-minute walk away and you will always be stranieri to the locals. But what Sarah fails to understand is that she is no more American than I am Portuguese. She is a US resident, perhaps even a US citizen, but she is not an American. America is not an idea. America is not a concept. America is not a proposition nation. One cannot, contra her past assertions, become a genuine American just because one happens to believe one thinks a certain way.

Vox’s minions are nastier in the comments although the man himself claims that relations are not strained between the two of them.

Vox’s piece was in response to this piece by Sarah Hoyt

The Carol Of The Bells – A Blast From The Past, 2/20/2014

It does meander a bit and some of the more overt anti-Trump/VD parts are in the comments.

Oh, because Trump isn’t? Have you actually looked at Trump’s history? He talks game. He’s not any better.
Look, he is “European Right Wing” which is why VD likes him. Americans following VD MUST understand he’s not an American conservative. He’s an European right winger. They’re not the same. And here in the states, they’re both socialists. The only difference is leftists in Europe are INTERNATIONAL socialists, and right wing is NATIONAL socialist. That’s all.
You want national socialism here? Yeah. Trump is your man. He’s into the banks for millions and he’s corrupted everything he touched. But you guys believe he’s a white Knight sans peur et sans reproche. Good LORD.

As always Vox writes better, argues more effectively and for a position that is more absurd and dangerous. Sarah Hoyt gets at the core aspect that infuriates people opposed to Trump: the guy is an obvious fraud.

Meanwhile the previously Pro-Carson, John C Wright has declared his prefered choice…and it is BERNIE SANDERS! OMG! Ha, no only kidding, its Donald Trump.

John C Wright Endorses The Devil

To be fair to Mr Wright he doesn’t seem too happy about it. Naturally, given the right’s deep and implacable commitment to free-speech in all its forms Wright identifies the key political issue of the day:

That is not what I believe. I say the main enemy is the Press. Destroy the Press, and the federal government can be driven back into its proper constitutional limitations. With the Press at large acting as the False Prophet for the Beast, it cannot be driven back, because the people are deceived into thinking the Beast will not consume their lives.

[That quote isn’t on JCW’s blog which only has an excerpt of his longer column here

Yup, that’s how the JCW’s will restore ‘freedom’ – they’ll first destroy the press. I’m guessing they’ll then protect freedom by taking away those other terrible threats like voting, differences of opinion, women having lives beyond what JCW thinks they should have, stuff like that…

14 thoughts on “Follow up to ‘Trump, Cruz, Rabid & Sad’

  1. I hate to be giving VD credit but when he writes “her logic is amusingly specious: she understands the danger that Donald Trump poses to America better than everyone else because Portugal.” he pretty much nails half of everything Hoyt writes.

    The argument at Hoyt’s against Trump being the responsibility of US conservatism seems to be that he’s not a “real” conservative, but that ignores that whatever he is, he’s being voted for by conservatives. Ignore the man, some elements of what he stands for are attracting US conservatism.

    On the flipside, VDs support seems to be pure unabashed opportunism. It lets him trumpet his anti-immigration views, while his ulterior motive is no doubt wishing chaos on yet another “establishment”, this time the Republicans. I wonder if we’ll eventually discover that a decade ago Bush and Cheney beat him like a pinata in a discussion board debate….


    1. It is kind of odd to watch. Hoyt thinks the press is not pointing out Trump’s gaffes but I think she has a very particular notion of what counts as Trump messing up.


      1. Oh yes, I’d forgotten that bit, I actually read the exchange a couple of days ago. I’m not a dedicated follower of US mass media, but my (admittedly biased) twitter feed with USians in is definitely putting the boot in to Trump. Mind you, I pretty much count “reporting what Trump says” as putting the boot in because he can’t stop saying dumb things, so I can’t definitively claim they’re not soft-soaping Trump for some reason. Rather doubt it though.


  2. The press is reporting on Trump’s dumbassery, but that just makes him more popular. He gets a ton of free advertising thanks to them. If JCW had his way, nobody would be hearing anything from Drumpf since he’s relying almost entirely on news coverage instead of advertising.

    Pretty rich that Teddy says Sarah’s not American. At least she lives in the US and pays taxes there, unlike him and his felon daddy. And she works for a living too, while raising her kids in America, more differences.

    Teddy beating Sarah at logic is the definition of damning with faint praise. It’s a pretty low bar. It’s like being the tallest Hobbit in Middle Earth.


    1. It isn’t so much logic,as the way he stays on point and knows what his argument is. Hoyt’s ideological thinking is too muddled and has to many layers of post-hoc rationalization.


  3. I am completely baffled as to the argument that VD is trying to make; he is obviously keen to establish that Hoyt is not American, but at no point does he define what being an American actually is. I appreciate that this enables him to retreat into mysticism, which is notoriously uninterested in defining anything, but it’s fatuous to expect other people not to notice it.

    Admittedly, VD isn’t good at spotting the blindingly obvious…


    1. Stevie, it’s quite clear that Teddy’s idea of a True American is a native-born male with Protestant northwestern European ancestors from a country with a Germanic language (who’s not poor or liberal). That’s not as fun to say as waxing mystic, though. Sarah, poor dear, is conservative and not poor, but she had the bad taste to be a woman born in a Romance-speaking Catholic Mediterranean country and therefore can’t be a Real ‘Muricn.

      His focus on Anglo-Saxonism would seem to disqualify his favorite useful idiot JCW, though, who’s Catholic. Teddy’s a Tory or UDP at heart. Guess he’ll make exceptions for tools, even if someone’s a Papist.


      1. VD and Catholicism is interesting. I think at some point he’ll convert to one of those breakaway Catholic sects. His last book was quite contemptuous of evangelical christians (and of people who adopt children from over seas) and he loves Thomas Aquinas and faux-latin.
        I think it is the southern Europe thing more than the Catholic thing – even those two were paired in the original form of the racist US nationalism he is emulating.


    2. Basically VD thinks that being American really is genetic and not even in a freaky white supremacist way but actually in an ANGLO-SAXON supremacist way! People struggle with this because it is so WTF that what? seriously? huh? takes over. He is basically taking the 19th century anti-immigration stance that saw immigrants from Southern Europe (e.g. Italy but also Portugal) as diluting US. Basically he sees liberalism as something that snuck in via latin genes (!?). I don’t know what he thinks of Irish genes or quite how he makes sense of *England* politically – I suppose he just doesn’t care.

      Anyhoo, just waiting for the point when Hoyt suggests he is a Nazi…


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