Dave and Me have a Chat

Over at Mad Genius:

camestrosfelapton August 24, 2015 at 3:25 pm

//julieapascal
August 24, 2015 at 3:02 pm

About the quotes for if glyer or minions show up. Even full quotes can deliberately mislead.//

That is true but linking to the actual posts so people can read what was read in full is important. Much better than what you just saw Bard Torgersen do with people’s words on his own blog.

davefreer August 24, 2015 at 10:44 pm

Cames, I hope you haven’t been drinking Chardonnay again. That’s why I stopped bothering to dissect your attempt at deconstruction last time. Firstly, you’re wrong – putting the link is a clever deception, which usually succeeds in implying that yes, you are being sweetness, honesty and light. Few bother to check, a fact I can confirm on the basis of click-throughs. Secondly as such behavior is common in puppy-kicker circles, before you start digging in TorgersOn’s eye — let’s see the evidence for where you’ve dug in the eyes of your friends. Come now. Show us.

camestrosfelapton August 24, 2015 at 11:10 pm

I can’t say I have ever directly encountered somebody directly replacing somebody’s comment with something utterly different other than on Brad’s blog. I am certain you wouldn’t do it or GRRM or Scalzi or Sarah Hoyt and I know John C Wright wouldn’t do it. The only case I’ve encountered is Brad Torgersen doing it. If it has happened elsewhere on a pro- or anti-puppy blog then I am happy to say that it is wrong but I can’t condemn what I haven’t seen. I’m disappointed Brad took the low road – I can see why he is upset but putting his words in my mouth is unethical on multiple levels.

Holly August 25, 2015 at 2:37 am

You are wrong. Mr. Scalzi has done so in the past: that’s the main reason I stopped reading his blog some years back. Not to people being rude, as I understand Mr. Torgersen has done, but to people who plainly and firmly disagreed with him.

camestrosfelapton August 25, 2015 at 2:45 am

In which case John Scalzi was wrong to do so. Delete or ban. If Brad doesn’t want my comment on his blog that is his perogative. Putting his words in my mouth is not what someone with honor would do.

davefreer August 25, 2015 at 4:46 am

He was infamous for it – But no use you telling _us_ he was wrong. Tell him. Good luck! But it was a common little game, Cames. Making Light, Hines etc. all thought it hilarious. Same with the ‘disemvoweling’. I had never heard of anyone on our side doing so. I have gone in and deleted part of a message – some fairly disgusting abuse directed at one of the ladies posting here, with a moderator warning in place that the poster would be banned if he ever stepped a micron over the line. I have also deleted content, left the post in place, with a moderator message that the poster had ignored the previous behavior warning about abuse and was now banned – Kevin Standlee IIRC. I left that there as a message to his fellow travelers that I try to be patient and tolerant but there are limits. That’s me, to date. I’m not Brad and I suggest you ask him why.

camestrosfelapton August 25, 2015 at 4:57 am

//I had never heard of anyone on our side doing so. //

Well now you have and you can see how Brad has behaved on his own website.

camestrosfelapton August 25, 2015 at 4:59 am

//But no use you telling _us_ he was wrong. Tell him.//

If you like. Give me a specific incident and if it was Scalzi doing what Brad Torgersen has done (effectively) then I’ll happily tell John Scalzi he was wrong.
How about you?

davefreer August 25, 2015 at 6:59 am

Camestros, that was before we started taking screenshots and archiving them, which is now common practice because the precise form of sealioning you’re engaging in. You’re not -unlike many of your fellow puppy-kickers — dim-witted – you know precisely what you’re doing, and so do I, and I have no need to put up with it. Do not imply I lie (or Holly lies) and require me to ‘prove’ to you, ever again. If you want to accuse anyone here of lying the burden of providing proof, specific instances lies on you. If I came to your website I would accept the same (and tried to do so). That will, however not be happening again. So: Don’t mention it in any shape, form or allusion, without first providing a screenshot of your telling John Scalzi that he should not engage in it. Don’t slither or try any Gallo squirms either. This is your one and final warning. Don’t do it again. Got me? Take up the issue with Brad on his website in person if you wish to. I will not have ‘you and him fight’. I’m not repeating that either. Final warning.

As you are capable of rational thought I’d like to ask you a question that is actually pertinent. Just what do you see happening with the 2016 nominations and votes, as a direct result of 2015 and with the figures we now have?

[My Reply Here] Sorry Dave but I didn’t imply you were lying, what I asked you for is to give me an example that I could actually discuss with John Scalzi. You aren’t dim witted – what are you asking me to do? Tell John Scalzi off about some vague accusation? Say “John don’t do that thing you did that time that I didn’t see to that person I don’t know and whose name I can’t remember on a date we don’t know?”

“This is your one and final warning. Don’t do it again. Got me?” No, I don’t get you Dave. You say I should tell Scalzi off but you won’t tell me about what exactly. Have you thought this through?  You want me and him to fight – but won’t say what about! (And what exactly are you threatening me with?)

What will happen in 2016. We both know the question is what will Vox Day do? The Sad Puppy plans are secondary to what ever Vox Day does. I assume he will try to run some kind of disruption campaign but what kind we won’t know until next year. What the non-puppies will do is read, review, share and nominate willy-nilly. If you guys do the same then we are on the same side in principle if not when it comes to specific choices.